社會學家歐陽博士
採訪：王春光
歐陽博士，今天非常榮幸能訪問您。聽說您曾在賓州費城的天普大學教書。請問您教的是那一科？
我教的是社會學導論、社會心理學、現代社會問題、美國社會與少年犯罪、少數民族社團研究等。
請問您大學的時候是讀的什麼系？在那個學校？
我大學是在國立台灣大學讀的，主修社會學，副修社會工作。
您是那一年畢業的？
一九六四年。
請問您研究院是那裏讀的？
我大學畢業之後，因為那時台灣沒有社會學的研究院，所以我就向費城的天普大學申請入學及獎學金。
您在天普大學得到什麼學位呢？
我於一九六八年獲得社會學碩士學位。那時，校方即聘我做講師。從一九六八年九月開始，我即在天普大學的理工學院教授社會學，一直到一九七五年六月。在一九七三年，我又回到天普大學（這一次是做學生）又攻讀博士學位。我的研究範圍包括社會心理學、社區研究、社會組織、社會學研究方式論等。一九七八年獲得社會學博士學位。
您在天普大學教書一共幾年？
一共七年。
您現在還在那裏教書嗎？
目前我正在做一些費城與德拉瓦河谷一帶中國社區的研究工作，以便讓美國人瞭解在美國的中國人的生活方式。
作為一個社會學家，您能不能用簡單的話告訴我們美國與中國的社會有什麼基本的不同？
好的。有三兩個不同點。例如在家庭中父母與子女之間的關係。在美國家庭中，這種關係是在友誼基礎上保持的，然而在中國的家庭中，年長者對年輕者有更多的權威。還有，自後期工業革命之後，美國社會都是由夫妻與子女所組成的小家庭所構成。
在美國的中國人怎麼樣呢？
為了要適應美國的社會，大多數的中國移民在美國也採用小家庭制度了。
有人說，美國人對他們的老年人照顧得不週到。您能不能告訴我們美國人如何照顧他們的老年人？
通常而論，對老年人照顧是美國政府的責任。退休後，他們多數可以拿到養老金和社會福利金。
在我來美國以前，常常聽說美國沒有窮人。您覺得這句話對嗎？
從我過去十五年的觀察中，我要說這句話並不正確。美國也有窮人。依照美國的生活水準，美國亦有所謂「貧窮問題」。跟一些未開發中國家庭的生活水準比較起來，即使美國的窮人比那些國家中的一般人生活還要好的多。
從一個社會學家的觀點來看，您認為美國社會可供開發中國家模倣的長處是什麼？
我想他們最大的長處是他們學習與工作態度的認真 – 不管他們做的是什麼。他們一旦決定獻身於一種理想或事業，他們會儘量克服一切攔阻和困難，直到達成目的。
請問您有沒有出版過什麼書或論文，或在專業刊物上發表過什麼文章？
我曾寫過幾篇有關社會學的文章。第一篇的標題是「有機與無機社會科學」，是在Social Telesis 上發表的。第二篇標題為「從社會學的觀點探討美國不良少年造成的原因」，是在第一次亞太會議上發表的。另外一篇我目前正在寫的是關於費城華埠及德拉瓦河谷地區華人社區種族團結性，希望能在一九八一年三月在威士康辛大學舉行的第四屆小型都市與社區研究年會中發表。
我知道歐陽是您先生的姓。請問他的大名叫什麼？
他的名字是景 - - 歐陽景。
他是那裏人？
他是生在廣東新會，但是在香港長大的。
我忘記問您自己是生在那裏的。
我生在北京。
您有幾個小孩？
我們有兩個孩子：男孩叫大富，今年快六歲了；女孩子叫苑美，今年一歲半。
大富有沒有上幼稚園？
有，他今年秋天要上幼稚園，老么上托兒所還嫌太小呢？
能否請您講一些您和歐陽博士怎樣相遇並結婚的經過？
我先生是從香港來的。他是主修化學的。我剛從台灣來的時候，費城的中國學生並不很多，在費城近郊的一些中國學生常會聚在一起互相聯誼，我和歐陽博士第一次見面就是在那樣一個聚會中。
您先生現在做些什麼呢？
他在賓州華盛頓堡一家製葯廠工作。他是一個很忠心的研究化學師。
我聽說您是一位基督徒。能否請您告訴我們一些您怎樣接受主耶穌做您的救主的經過？
我出生在一個基督教家庭中。我的父親和弟兄姊妹都是受過洗禮的基督徒。我們開始認識主是在我們到台灣的第二或第三年。因為我們剛到台灣，人地生疏，沒有很多親戚或朋友。生活好像非常空虛。有一天在一個佈道會中我們聽到了主耶穌，就接受了祂做我們的救主。我還記得那時我們住的地方離教堂非常遠，但每個星期天我們走半個多小時的路去禮拜。我母親非常虔誠。我記得還得陪祂去參加星期三晚上的查經聚會，風雨無阻。因為我們都信主，所以我們家裏充滿了仁愛、喜樂與和諧。
您能不能給我們一些具體的見證，說明主如何在您的家庭中作工？
好的。大概是一九五四年六月，那時我們仍在上小學。我記得有一天，我和妹妹放學回家。當我們走過一片田地的時候，我們隨便採了一些野花。我們到了家之後，突然之間我妹妹臉上，身上起滿水泡。雖然我父親是個外科醫生，他不能斷定是什麼原因。他去請教台灣最有名的皮膚科醫生，也沒有什麼幫助。那時我父親虔誠地向神禱告，求神給他一種藥能醫治這種病症。當他在實驗他所配的這些藥的時候，忽然他發現一種處方，對這種病症特別有效。這種處方對他來說是完全陌生的
– 其實對任何其他的人也是如此 – 顯然是在他禱告的時候神向他啟示。上了這種藥之後，我妹妹身上的水泡完全消失，她乃立刻痊癒。即使最有名的皮膚科醫生也覺得莫明其妙。這件事表明神是能行神蹟的，也大大的增加了我們的信心。
在您追求實現您的學術目標的漫長過程中，您對耶穌的信仰對您有沒有幫助？
是的。由於我隻身在外國，常常會遭遇到一些情況，覺得急切需要智慧與力量。在這種時候，我就發現我與主的關係與交通帶給我最大的安慰與力量。在我求學的過程中，有時候我需要摒棄一切思慮，專心一意地讀書。在這時候我就發現禱告實在能幫助我繼續下去。
您作基督徒這麼多年，作為一個神的兒女，您最寶貴的經驗是什麼？
我想作為基督徒我們最寶貴的東西就是在我們心中有神的平安與喜樂。當我們遇到問題時，我們不會像其他人一樣感覺那就是我們生命的終點。作為一個信徒，我總覺得神離我不遠
– 雖然我不能看見祂。祂在引導我走在祂為我預備的道路中。當我走到我生命路途的交叉口時，祂會指示我當行的路。當我覺得寂寞需要朋友時，祂會安慰我。
在您的工作與求學的經驗中，您認為您的信仰如何對您有幫助？
有人認為宗教和科學互相衝突。我認為它們不但不衝突，反而是相輔相成的。在科學界，有很多問題到現在還找不到答案。我的學術專長是社會學，與物理、化學比較起來是門相當年幼的科學。在這段「嬰兒時期」當然有很多問題還沒有找答案。但聖經告訴我們最初的社會是怎樣形成的。聖經也告訴我們一開始人就得罪了神，所有人類的災難都是那次犯罪的後果。按照聖經的話說，理想的社會是一個彼此相愛和睦同居的社會。我想用這些聖經的觀點來看社會的目標會更容易瞭解些。
也許您知道，O.K.雜誌的一項目標就是幫助那些從中華人民共和國來此留學的學生學習英語。我們每一期都寄很多份到中國大陸去。您對這些來此留學或仍在大陸的中國學生，有沒有什麼特別的話要說？
從報章雜誌上我知道有很多學生和學者從中華人民共和國來此留學或研究。很多是來此研究自然科學與技術的。但我覺得我們也需要訓練一些社會科學家。如果有些學生或學者是來此研究社會科學的，我願盡我所能給予他們一些幫助。從我個人的經驗來說，能來美國留學是個非常好的機會。我希望他們在這裏的時候會以客觀和開明的態度盡量學習，並把他們所學的帶回去貢獻給他們的國家和社會。我衷心祝福他們。
謝謝您，歐陽博士，給我們這個機會訪問您。
也謝謝您今天的來訪。
Dr.
Auyang, I am much honored to come to visit you
today. I heard that you were
teaching at
I
taught Introduction to Sociology, social Psychology, Contemporary American
Society, Juvenile Delinquency, and Ethnic Community Studies.
What
subject did you take in undergraduate work, and at what school?
I
did my undergraduate work in the
When
did you graduate?
In 1964.
Where
did you do your graduate work?
After
I finished my undergraduate work, owing to the fact that there was no graduate
school of sociology then in
What
degrees did you receive from
I
received my Master’s degree in sociology in 1968. Thereupon I was appointed to
be an instructor. I started teaching sociology in the
How
many years have you taught at
Seven years altogether.
Are
you teaching there at the present time?
Right
now I am doing some research work on the Chinese communities in
Since
you are a sociologist, can you briefly tell us some basic differences between
American and Chinese societies in plain language?
Yes.
There are two or three basic differences.
Take the relationship between the parents and children in the family,
for instance. In the American
family, that relationship is maintained through a friendship basis, while in a
Chinese family the elders have a lot more authority over the younger ones.
Further,
since the Industrial Revolution the American society has been composed of small
families consisting of husband and wife and their children.
How
about the Chinese in
In
order to adjust to the American society, most of the Chinese immigrants in
People
used to say that the old people here in the U.S are not well cared for. Can you tell us something about the ways
the Americans take care of their old people?
Generally
speaking, the
Before I came to the
From my observation during the past fifteen years. I will say that this
statement is not true.
From
a sociologist’s point of view, what do you think are the good points
(strengths) of the American society which may serve as a model for the developing
countries to imitate?
I
think their greatest strength lies in the way they learn and devote themselves
to their work, whatever it is. Once
they decide to devote themselves to a certain cause, they will try to overcome
all hindrances and difficulties in order to achieve their goal.
Have
you published any books, these, or articles in any professional journals?
I
wrote a few articles in the field of sociology. The first one was entitles “Organic and
Inorganic Social Science” published in Social Telesis. The second
one was entitled “ American Sociological Approaches of
the Causes of Juvenile Delinquency.” Published by the First
Asian-Pacific Conference.
Another one, which I am still in the process of writing, is about the
ethnic solidarity of the Chinese communities in the
I
know your husband is Dr Auyang. But what is his first name?
His
first name is King.
Where
is he from?
He
was born in Hsinhui,
I
forgot to ask where you were born.
I
was born in
How
many children do you have?
We
have two children: a boy, Edward, is almost six and a girl, Elizabeth, is one
and a half.
Is
Edward going to kindergarden or nursery school?
He
is going to kindergarden in the fall. The small one is too young even for
nursery school.
Can
you tell us a little bit about how you and Dr. Auyang
met and when you got married?
My
husband came from
What
is your husband doing now?
He
is working in a pharmaceutical company in
I
heard that you are a Christian. Can
you tell us a little bit about how you accepted the Lord Jesus as your savior?
I
was born in a Christian family. My
parents and all my brothers and sisters are baptized Christians. We began to
know the Lord about the second or third year after we arrived in
Can
you give us some specific testimony to show how the Lord worked in your family?
Yes. It was June, 1954, when we were still in
primary school. One day, I
remember, my sister and I were walking home from school. On the way we plucked some wild flowers
as we passed through a field. But
after we got home, all of a sudden, my sister got blisters all over her face
and body. Although my father was a
surgeon, he could not determine what caused the trouble. He consulted the most famous
dermatologist in
Has
your faith in Jesus Christ been a help to you in your long pursuit of your
academic goal?
Yes.
As I was alone in a foreign country. I often encountered situations where I
was in desperate need of wisdom and strength, and these were the times when I
found that my relationship and fellowship with the Lord offered me the greatest
solace and strength.
In
the course of my study, there were times that I found prayer can really help me
to carry on.
In
all the years you have been a Christian, what is the most precious experience
you have a child of God?
I
think the most precious things that we have as Christians are the peace and joy
of God in our heart. When we
encounter problems we won’t feel like other people feel, as if that is the end
of our life. As a believer, I
always feel that God is close to me although I cannot see Him. He is leading me on the way that He has
prepared for me. He is guiding me
when I come to a fork in the road of my life. He comforts me when I feel lonely and in
need of friendship.
In
your experience of working and studying, in what way do you think your faith in
God has been a help to you?
Some
people think religious belief and science are contradictory to each other. But I think they are not
only not contradictory to each other, but actually they are compatible
to and complementary of each other. In science there are many questions that
even up to now there has not yet been any answer to. My particular discipline is in the
science of sociology, which is a very young science compared to physics and
chemistry. In this sort of infant
stage there have been a lot of questions for which there have not been any
answers. But the Bible tells us how the original society was formed. It tells us that from the very
beginning, man sinned against God. And all the woes and calamities came to
humanity as a consequence.
According to the Word of God, the ideal society is one in which people
love one another and live in harmony and peace. And I think I can understand
the goal of the society better with these Biblical perspectives.
Probably
you know that one of the goals of the O.K. Magazine is to help the students
from the P.R.C. in their study of English.
We also send quite a few copies of each issue to mainland
From
the newspapers and magazines, I learned that many students and scholars are
coming here to study from the P.R.C.
Most of these are coming to learn about natural science and
technology. But I feel we also need
to train some social scientists. If
any students or scholars are coming here to study social science I will be very
glad to offer them whatever help and assistance that I can. From
my own experience. It is a
very good opportunity to come to study in
Thank
you very much, Dr. Auyang, for your kindness in
receiving us.
Thank
you for coming.